For me, I’m a man, I’m a Minnesotan, and I’m an American. But the most central aspect of who I am is Catholicism. I was baptized into the Catholic Church as an infant in December of 1986 and I’ve been an orthodox, practicing Catholic ever since.
And Catholicism is a lot more than studying the Bible, the Catechism and the Church Fathers. It’s about practicing the spiritual and the corporal works of mercy and living what we believe as Catholics.
St. John Chrysostom said “If you don’t find Christ in the poor, you won’t find Him in the Eucharist either.” How many people who claim to be Christians actually love the poor and try to help them? It seems like a lot fewer than should. Same with radiating Jesus’ love, peace, and mercy to everyone we meet. That’s what all the saints did, that’s what drew the ancient pagans to convert to Christianity: their radical love. I’m seeing a lot more yelling and screaming and anger than I am love, peace, and mercy from many so-called Christian leaders here in the USA. I think it was C.S. Lewis who said that Christians behaving badly are the biggest obstacle to believing in Christianity for people, and I think he’s absolutely right about that.
A lot of the stuff these people do makes me livid because it’s so scandalous and a betrayal of actual Christianity. They are the closest thing to actual AntiChrists that I’ve ever seen. Christian fundamentalism is a betrayal and distortion of orthodox Christianity.
I try to do the best I can myself to help the poor and the vulnerable, but I could always do better at that.
This was a glorious wrestling very reminiscent of my own. Off with the labels! Let’s just attempt to love the shit out of each other. Fighting to be accepted into the Christian club is exhausting. I’m over it. You will truly never get it “right” for some people and no one has a monopoly on God. I think it’s best to fight for one’s visions and values not to impose them on others but to live a life where you can as a two legged creature walk with some semblance of dignity and authenticity.
As you know, I confess the Creed, etc... but the Creed means nothing to most people anyhow--it only does to me because I spend half my time in Late-Antiquity. What this post made me think of in particular though, was a story of St. Paisios when he was a boy and had a crisis of faith. Picture a simple boy with hardly a grade school level education, being told one day about Darwinian evolution, how man originated from apes, and that Jesus was a great man, even maybe the greatest man, but just a man. This shattered little Arsenious's (Paisios's) entire unmodern worldview and his simple faith, so he retreated to a chapel to try to recover and regain his footing. Eventually, he decided that if Christ was the best man to live and gave his life to him with such love, than he was worth dying for whether or not he was God. It was after he came to that conclusion and conviction that for the first time he saw Jesus Christ. My point here, is simply that, it's hard to argue that loving Christ isn't in many ways more important than believing in Him (or at least in some idolatrous concept of him which is commonly found in Christianity today.) Life is a process and as Gregory of Nyssa essentially said, perfection is progress for just as God is infinite so is our potential for growth. The only thing I'd challenge of what you said, is to be to invested in meditation simply as emptiness--not that the point isn't to be rid of thought and detach from their damaging effects--but at least for me, this is clearing the way for the Light of God to enter in (or to be less theistic) for fullness, eudaimonia. or Being, Consciousness, and Bliss.
I think you and I are Christians in a similar sense-Id call myself a Christian Panentheist.
Yes I'm biased by growing up in the religious framework but even after examining many other religions, the Jesus narrative is certainly unique in its subversive power.
Excellent piece. I’ve completely left my faith, but everything you’re saying makes sense. I do think as an American there are certain Christian underpinnings to our culture that are unavoidable. And I’m ok with that. I also think that with the rise of people like Jordan Peterson (as much as he irritates the fuck out of me), there will be more and more of the “nones” that become nonliteralists. Christians have slowly been taking less and less of their book seriously over the last hundred years, and while on one front I feel like they should just let it all go, so long as they let go the reprensible bullshit in there that leads to bad behavior, I don’t so much care. Same with Islam.
I think you are completely right. The rise of Peterson is so disorienting to me. The exact same Christians who would excoriate his view as “liberal” 20 years ago are now celebrating him. Insane.
Yeah. In a lot of ways he’s just a token smart guy for their party. Many of the people who love him have no idea what he’s actually talking about, if they did they would abjure him as a wolf in sheep’s clothing. I’m convinced by their definition he’s actually an atheist. He only seems to care about god as some kind of Jungian archetype. It’s similar with Christian apologists like William Lane Craig, they spout a bunch of gobbledygook that impresses their fans, while the rest of us are like “Breh. The fuck are you even talking about?”
Knowing how widely read you are, I wouldn’t be surprised if you’ve already come across this, but have you interacted at all with Rudolph Otto’s “The Idea of the Holy”? Otto really pushes into that feeling to awe you mention when you’re talking about your experiences with Einstein’s God.
“The Idea of the Holy” is the book where he digs into what he calls the “mysterium tremendum” (aw(e)ful mystery) which transcends human capacity for comprehension and explanation, and which sits at the heart of all religious experience. He advocates for the primacy of Christianity at the end of the day (being a German Lutheran and all) but the core ideas would really interest you, I think.
“When I look at the night sky, I feel awe that is so alien that it doesn't even exist in the same symbolic universe with Christianity. Whatever God I worship is not recognizable in most of the Christian literature I have read to date, and I've read a lot. It is impersonal, cold, terrifying, and awe-inspiring. There is no person there, only a vast mystery. Is that God? Sure. But it's certainly not Christianity's God.”
I feel this. Impersonal, cold, terrifying, awe-inspiring. Beautiful and sublime. Ugly and chaotic.
Maybe seeing Jesus as the Christ Paul made is a problem for some folks. Without all the baggage the Church Councils added and the word salad christologies theologians try to trap the person of Jesus in makes the whole ability to be a follower of Jesus, not a Christian, a truly personal journey.
What a joy to read this! It seems like such a niche struggle, but I also find myself debating internally each day if I should full-heartedly return to Christianity or not. Part of this is my own fault: I am weirdly addicted to Christian podcasts, and the current batch of popular narratives (the new atheists are in retreat, we are in a meaning crisis, we are already swimming in Christian waters, etc.) are very engaging to me. I am drawn back to mass from time to time as well, and the ritual of the liturgy can be intoxicating. But, like you, I cannot confirm a belief in God, and I cannot accept the creeds. Even though I was raised Catholic and feel a connection to that culture (it gave me what I call my spiritual grammar), and even though I'm most certainly Christian in many of my ethical positions, I keep stepping back right when I'm most tempted to dive back in. It seems to offer the full package (community, identity, structure, meaning, purpose), but I just can't bring myself to fully commit. And honestly, I think this is a good thing, and your article helps me realize why: the virtue of what you call label pacifism. Like you, I had been practicing Buddhist meditation for a few years before being tempted back to Christianity, and I think these practices have manifested as a bulwark against such temptations to squeeze myself into a religious identity. These practices help me see why I have this strong desire within me (i.e., the god-shaped hole), but they also help me see that that's all it is: simply a desire, one among many, fueled by thoughts, none of them permanent. You put it beautifully: "As I meditate, day after day after day, the garments of identity start to fall away, like Lazarus' grave clothes. What's left is not thought, identity, or ideology, but only the undefined openness of consciousness itself. That's what I am — beautiful emptiness — even when I put those grave clothes back on."
Man, I’m exactly right there with you. Especially regarding consuming Christian podcasts and media, and feeling like there’s a real need that they are speaking to.
Wonderful. It continues to weird me out how similar your spiritual journey has been to mine.
One difference I think springs from me having been raised Catholic. Arguing about who is really Christian is kind of a Protestant thing. If a Protestant tries to tell me I'm not Christian, all I've got for them is a patronizing pat on the head, like, tell it to the church door Mr. Luther. And most Catholics don't bother telling me I'm not a Christian because after half a millennium, they're just so very used to all this heresy by now; to them I'm just another flavor of Protestant.
I used to get into arguments about the border when I was younger, but no one ever really put a dent in my ability to self-identify, it was mostly just me explaining why they were wrong. And anyway, that got boring after awhile and was obviously not particularly important.
I really have no problem with your "label pacifism" approach, but if you don't mind some food for thought, it does often sadden me to see the meaning of the word Christian yielded to the most belligerent and narrow-minded sects. It's not like you even need to defend identifying as Christian to do so; you can proclaim it loud and proud and then drink fundie tears when they object. I've been told countless times by non-Christians, "Well if more Christians were like _you_ then I wouldn't have a problem." All I can think is, well, then why are you letting the folks you dislike and reject corral your understanding of Christianity, rather than the Christians you respect?
But, it mostly doesn't matter. I long ago realized that if the name of Jesus disappeared completely from the lips of humanity, but everyone was busy loving each other as they love themselves, Jesus would surely count it as a win. I only went back to calling myself Christian because it's just difficult to communicate about the underlying spirit I believe in without the story of Christ; no point in reinventing such an ancient wheel, and no other ancient story quite gets us there. But if anyone objects, it's just not going to phase me, and there will surely be more interesting and important things to argue about if I'm going to argue with them at all.
Thank you so much for sharing, and you are completely right about this being a Protestant thing. It’s what the Protestants are famous for.
And I hear you regarding letting the most acrimonious Christians “win.” I do get that sense of loss. And I’m not even necessarily saying that Label Pacifism will be more permanent situation — just that it makes an untenable situation more tenable.
👏 I have been reading the back and forth, and followed it. Mostly because I went through the same thing. Even as a pagan, I refuse to choose a path with a label. Even with my mediumistic and empathic abilities, I refuse a defined label. I just cannot put myself into a box. The closest I dare come to some kind of “label” is: eclectic pagan and mystic. Totally open to all things as I see fit, that feels right to me.
Following the cultural relevance of the myths of the entities (gods/goddesses) is a model and archetype for living. And yet, I feel spirit in a very real way when I do energy work. So it is confounding, yes? It’s true fir me the same reason you see Christianity as truth.
Jesus was a radical of his time. I respect him for what he did. I just don’t have any need for the insanity of today’s bastardized version of Christianity. I wanted to go to the source of the myths that carried down and filtered through Christianity and other modern religions. Paganism is where I landed. It fits me. You’ve done this as well. Welcome. It feels nice in the open air of eclectic spiritual practice that knows no boundaries.
I’ve been thinking along similar lines recently (probably how I came across your work!) I think the core issue is that “Christian” could mean a whole host of things and it always has. Christians were slave holders and abolitionists. They’ve advanced social change and stood against it. I would still not call myself a Christian (even though I, too, was born into it), but I’m feeling a similar sense of ease with returning to the label. If a Christian can be anything, why can’t it be me? Of course, you’re correct that it’s others who enforce the boundaries.
Absolutely wonderful read. Thank you so much for addressing the idea of the power of stories, especially Christian stories. I have been thinking about that lately and you beautifully articulated that idea. Thank you!
"It is easier to follow in the footsteps of Christ when you aren't bogged down by all that creedal shit."
Truer words were never said!
I’m glad you think so!
I will just aggressively insist that you are a Quaker.
In the spirit of Label Pacifism, I will accept your characterization of me as a Quaker.
Exactly what a Quaker would do.
Thanks for giving your perspective!
For me, I’m a man, I’m a Minnesotan, and I’m an American. But the most central aspect of who I am is Catholicism. I was baptized into the Catholic Church as an infant in December of 1986 and I’ve been an orthodox, practicing Catholic ever since.
And Catholicism is a lot more than studying the Bible, the Catechism and the Church Fathers. It’s about practicing the spiritual and the corporal works of mercy and living what we believe as Catholics.
St. John Chrysostom said “If you don’t find Christ in the poor, you won’t find Him in the Eucharist either.” How many people who claim to be Christians actually love the poor and try to help them? It seems like a lot fewer than should. Same with radiating Jesus’ love, peace, and mercy to everyone we meet. That’s what all the saints did, that’s what drew the ancient pagans to convert to Christianity: their radical love. I’m seeing a lot more yelling and screaming and anger than I am love, peace, and mercy from many so-called Christian leaders here in the USA. I think it was C.S. Lewis who said that Christians behaving badly are the biggest obstacle to believing in Christianity for people, and I think he’s absolutely right about that.
A lot of the stuff these people do makes me livid because it’s so scandalous and a betrayal of actual Christianity. They are the closest thing to actual AntiChrists that I’ve ever seen. Christian fundamentalism is a betrayal and distortion of orthodox Christianity.
I try to do the best I can myself to help the poor and the vulnerable, but I could always do better at that.
Michael, you represent the best of Catholicism to me, and I’m really grateful for your friendship ❤️
Thanks, brother!
This was a glorious wrestling very reminiscent of my own. Off with the labels! Let’s just attempt to love the shit out of each other. Fighting to be accepted into the Christian club is exhausting. I’m over it. You will truly never get it “right” for some people and no one has a monopoly on God. I think it’s best to fight for one’s visions and values not to impose them on others but to live a life where you can as a two legged creature walk with some semblance of dignity and authenticity.
Agreed. Thanks for sharing!
As you know, I confess the Creed, etc... but the Creed means nothing to most people anyhow--it only does to me because I spend half my time in Late-Antiquity. What this post made me think of in particular though, was a story of St. Paisios when he was a boy and had a crisis of faith. Picture a simple boy with hardly a grade school level education, being told one day about Darwinian evolution, how man originated from apes, and that Jesus was a great man, even maybe the greatest man, but just a man. This shattered little Arsenious's (Paisios's) entire unmodern worldview and his simple faith, so he retreated to a chapel to try to recover and regain his footing. Eventually, he decided that if Christ was the best man to live and gave his life to him with such love, than he was worth dying for whether or not he was God. It was after he came to that conclusion and conviction that for the first time he saw Jesus Christ. My point here, is simply that, it's hard to argue that loving Christ isn't in many ways more important than believing in Him (or at least in some idolatrous concept of him which is commonly found in Christianity today.) Life is a process and as Gregory of Nyssa essentially said, perfection is progress for just as God is infinite so is our potential for growth. The only thing I'd challenge of what you said, is to be to invested in meditation simply as emptiness--not that the point isn't to be rid of thought and detach from their damaging effects--but at least for me, this is clearing the way for the Light of God to enter in (or to be less theistic) for fullness, eudaimonia. or Being, Consciousness, and Bliss.
I love that story. It suggests an expansiveness in a way much of Western Christianity doesn’t.
I think you and I are Christians in a similar sense-Id call myself a Christian Panentheist.
Yes I'm biased by growing up in the religious framework but even after examining many other religions, the Jesus narrative is certainly unique in its subversive power.
Agree
Excellent piece. I’ve completely left my faith, but everything you’re saying makes sense. I do think as an American there are certain Christian underpinnings to our culture that are unavoidable. And I’m ok with that. I also think that with the rise of people like Jordan Peterson (as much as he irritates the fuck out of me), there will be more and more of the “nones” that become nonliteralists. Christians have slowly been taking less and less of their book seriously over the last hundred years, and while on one front I feel like they should just let it all go, so long as they let go the reprensible bullshit in there that leads to bad behavior, I don’t so much care. Same with Islam.
I think you are completely right. The rise of Peterson is so disorienting to me. The exact same Christians who would excoriate his view as “liberal” 20 years ago are now celebrating him. Insane.
Yeah. In a lot of ways he’s just a token smart guy for their party. Many of the people who love him have no idea what he’s actually talking about, if they did they would abjure him as a wolf in sheep’s clothing. I’m convinced by their definition he’s actually an atheist. He only seems to care about god as some kind of Jungian archetype. It’s similar with Christian apologists like William Lane Craig, they spout a bunch of gobbledygook that impresses their fans, while the rest of us are like “Breh. The fuck are you even talking about?”
Knowing how widely read you are, I wouldn’t be surprised if you’ve already come across this, but have you interacted at all with Rudolph Otto’s “The Idea of the Holy”? Otto really pushes into that feeling to awe you mention when you’re talking about your experiences with Einstein’s God.
I’m familiar with the name but I’ve never read him! Thank you so much for the suggestion! Is there a book or essay you’d recommend?
“The Idea of the Holy” is the book where he digs into what he calls the “mysterium tremendum” (aw(e)ful mystery) which transcends human capacity for comprehension and explanation, and which sits at the heart of all religious experience. He advocates for the primacy of Christianity at the end of the day (being a German Lutheran and all) but the core ideas would really interest you, I think.
Wonderful! I have added it to my reading list
“When I look at the night sky, I feel awe that is so alien that it doesn't even exist in the same symbolic universe with Christianity. Whatever God I worship is not recognizable in most of the Christian literature I have read to date, and I've read a lot. It is impersonal, cold, terrifying, and awe-inspiring. There is no person there, only a vast mystery. Is that God? Sure. But it's certainly not Christianity's God.”
I feel this. Impersonal, cold, terrifying, awe-inspiring. Beautiful and sublime. Ugly and chaotic.
Who’s gonna revive the mystery cults for us?
Yes. I feel like I need the pagan Rites of Demeter or something.
Precisely the one I was thinking about!
Maybe seeing Jesus as the Christ Paul made is a problem for some folks. Without all the baggage the Church Councils added and the word salad christologies theologians try to trap the person of Jesus in makes the whole ability to be a follower of Jesus, not a Christian, a truly personal journey.
Kansas says it all:
Carry on my wayward son
There'll be peace when you are done
Lay your weary head to rest
Don't you cry no more.
Thank you for the encouragement!
you're looking for gnosticism.
Maybe!
What a joy to read this! It seems like such a niche struggle, but I also find myself debating internally each day if I should full-heartedly return to Christianity or not. Part of this is my own fault: I am weirdly addicted to Christian podcasts, and the current batch of popular narratives (the new atheists are in retreat, we are in a meaning crisis, we are already swimming in Christian waters, etc.) are very engaging to me. I am drawn back to mass from time to time as well, and the ritual of the liturgy can be intoxicating. But, like you, I cannot confirm a belief in God, and I cannot accept the creeds. Even though I was raised Catholic and feel a connection to that culture (it gave me what I call my spiritual grammar), and even though I'm most certainly Christian in many of my ethical positions, I keep stepping back right when I'm most tempted to dive back in. It seems to offer the full package (community, identity, structure, meaning, purpose), but I just can't bring myself to fully commit. And honestly, I think this is a good thing, and your article helps me realize why: the virtue of what you call label pacifism. Like you, I had been practicing Buddhist meditation for a few years before being tempted back to Christianity, and I think these practices have manifested as a bulwark against such temptations to squeeze myself into a religious identity. These practices help me see why I have this strong desire within me (i.e., the god-shaped hole), but they also help me see that that's all it is: simply a desire, one among many, fueled by thoughts, none of them permanent. You put it beautifully: "As I meditate, day after day after day, the garments of identity start to fall away, like Lazarus' grave clothes. What's left is not thought, identity, or ideology, but only the undefined openness of consciousness itself. That's what I am — beautiful emptiness — even when I put those grave clothes back on."
Man, I’m exactly right there with you. Especially regarding consuming Christian podcasts and media, and feeling like there’s a real need that they are speaking to.
Wonderful. It continues to weird me out how similar your spiritual journey has been to mine.
One difference I think springs from me having been raised Catholic. Arguing about who is really Christian is kind of a Protestant thing. If a Protestant tries to tell me I'm not Christian, all I've got for them is a patronizing pat on the head, like, tell it to the church door Mr. Luther. And most Catholics don't bother telling me I'm not a Christian because after half a millennium, they're just so very used to all this heresy by now; to them I'm just another flavor of Protestant.
I used to get into arguments about the border when I was younger, but no one ever really put a dent in my ability to self-identify, it was mostly just me explaining why they were wrong. And anyway, that got boring after awhile and was obviously not particularly important.
I really have no problem with your "label pacifism" approach, but if you don't mind some food for thought, it does often sadden me to see the meaning of the word Christian yielded to the most belligerent and narrow-minded sects. It's not like you even need to defend identifying as Christian to do so; you can proclaim it loud and proud and then drink fundie tears when they object. I've been told countless times by non-Christians, "Well if more Christians were like _you_ then I wouldn't have a problem." All I can think is, well, then why are you letting the folks you dislike and reject corral your understanding of Christianity, rather than the Christians you respect?
But, it mostly doesn't matter. I long ago realized that if the name of Jesus disappeared completely from the lips of humanity, but everyone was busy loving each other as they love themselves, Jesus would surely count it as a win. I only went back to calling myself Christian because it's just difficult to communicate about the underlying spirit I believe in without the story of Christ; no point in reinventing such an ancient wheel, and no other ancient story quite gets us there. But if anyone objects, it's just not going to phase me, and there will surely be more interesting and important things to argue about if I'm going to argue with them at all.
Thank you so much for sharing, and you are completely right about this being a Protestant thing. It’s what the Protestants are famous for.
And I hear you regarding letting the most acrimonious Christians “win.” I do get that sense of loss. And I’m not even necessarily saying that Label Pacifism will be more permanent situation — just that it makes an untenable situation more tenable.
👏 I have been reading the back and forth, and followed it. Mostly because I went through the same thing. Even as a pagan, I refuse to choose a path with a label. Even with my mediumistic and empathic abilities, I refuse a defined label. I just cannot put myself into a box. The closest I dare come to some kind of “label” is: eclectic pagan and mystic. Totally open to all things as I see fit, that feels right to me.
Following the cultural relevance of the myths of the entities (gods/goddesses) is a model and archetype for living. And yet, I feel spirit in a very real way when I do energy work. So it is confounding, yes? It’s true fir me the same reason you see Christianity as truth.
Jesus was a radical of his time. I respect him for what he did. I just don’t have any need for the insanity of today’s bastardized version of Christianity. I wanted to go to the source of the myths that carried down and filtered through Christianity and other modern religions. Paganism is where I landed. It fits me. You’ve done this as well. Welcome. It feels nice in the open air of eclectic spiritual practice that knows no boundaries.
Thank you so much for the kind words!
I’ve been thinking along similar lines recently (probably how I came across your work!) I think the core issue is that “Christian” could mean a whole host of things and it always has. Christians were slave holders and abolitionists. They’ve advanced social change and stood against it. I would still not call myself a Christian (even though I, too, was born into it), but I’m feeling a similar sense of ease with returning to the label. If a Christian can be anything, why can’t it be me? Of course, you’re correct that it’s others who enforce the boundaries.
I’m so glad you found the article helpful! Yeah, religion is so complex, and has so many variables.
Absolutely wonderful read. Thank you so much for addressing the idea of the power of stories, especially Christian stories. I have been thinking about that lately and you beautifully articulated that idea. Thank you!
Thank you!