I have known you since 2016, Stephen. You have been with me through the after effects of my disastrous outing and loss of ordination to my own crazy fumbles and foibles in the Queer community.
My own platonic love for you is quite deep.
Reading through your glorious praise of Jonathan and how he has helped you through thick and thin makes me so happy, as should anyone be when they see the pure love between you two.
So I read this beautiful article knowing a portion of what you have gone through (certainly not the whole). We are creatures of not only our genetics, but also of our environment. We have been molded into who we are, for better or for worse. And when we have broken the form for that mold, something shatters in ourselves as well. We are no longer the same, as is the world we live in.
So I see and acknowledge your just critique of the Bible. The mythological world it presents does not reflect the world we are in now. That mold has broken again and we must pick up the pieces once more.
I am still a Christian, much to the objections and bewilderment of so many of my acquaintances. If my faith were solely based on the Bible, I would agree with you wholeheartedly and say that I am no longer a Christian because of all those reasons you so eloquently wrote in this article.
However, my faith is not just based on the Bible. It is also based on my family (as much as we disagree with each other). It is based on my new Church I joined in 2016 and became a member in 2017. My faith is also based on science, the writings of so many wonderful authors, living and dead. My faith is grounded in my children, who continue to inspire me and give me hope. My faith is tempered by my boyfriend, who reminds me to keep certain things in perspective and to know when to leave things behind.
My faith is also ironically grounded in doubt. That has been my biggest struggle, but also my most valuable tool.
All this to say, yes, the Bible gets so much wrong, but that is not all that Christianity is.
Thanks so much for your friendship and love throughout these crazy years.
Thank you so much, Timothy, and thank you so much for being on this journey with me. If there’s a Christianity I wish more people embodied, it would be yours.
One's own personal experience and perception of sin does not ultimately matter in the Christian tradition. Nor does the Bible's "lack of imagination" regarding sin give any sort of legitimate excuse for its indulgence. I am sure that if I looked, and if such people were motivated to spin the tale, I could find people who say:
--That they have been heavy drinkers, have never seriously considered quitting alcohol, and that it has only ever enriched their lives and been of great benefit to them. I have indeed seen a few such people and seen them make claims like the claim that their life would be miserable or that it would not even be worth living if they gave up their alcoholism.
--That they have indulged in fornication and casual sex and that the experiences were nothing but positive and pleasant for all parties involved.
--That they have participated in the production of pornography and that they found the experience nothing but pleasurable and empowering.
--That they have had abortions and that those abortions have literally saved their lives.
And so forth and so on. Does the Bible describe their perspectives in vivid and highly sympathetic detail? No. Should it? If you think so, then it follows that you must reject Christianity, I suppose. Every belief system has tenets that are non-negotiable. Christianity is very clear about this one. The Bible was canonized hundreds of years after the death of Christ--what did all of His followers believe in the intervening centuries? Did they approve of homosexuality, or did they abhor it? What of the millennia since then? Christians have condemned homosexuality as unambiguously sinful, in all places and all times, until extremely recently.
To bring your personal experience of sin to bear and expect it to sway the minds of Christians is like going to the Amish and telling them that you have lived with all the wonders and comforts of modern technology and that nothing bad has happened to you, that they truly have nothing to fear from these things. Even if you were successful in your appeal, and the Amish abandoned their old ways because of your appeal to personal experience, would they even really be Amish anymore after that? No.
>The Bible is on Osiris' scale. On one side, the words and convictions of an ancient religion I no longer believe. On the other, the vast story of life and virtue that is my partnership of a decade. The Bible is found wanting, and until I see any reason to believe the Bible actually speaks meaningfully to the lived, embodied realities of my partnership, not only would it be stupid to exchange one for the other, it would be immoral.<
As an ancient tradition that spans the globe with billions of followers, Christianity carries the weight of an enormous mass of humanity behind it. Personally, I find it impossible to imagine my single life as ever weighing up to the collective knowledge and wisdom that the faith represents. Therefore I choose to submit myself to this tradition. I'm not a homosexual, of course. But I have given up alcohol, casual sex and pornography as a result of my faith. For most of my life I intended to be childless and, while I do not think the reversal of that attitude was entirely due to my commitment to Christianity, I do believe that the faith played a large part. Had I chosen the other path and dedicated myself to atheism, I think there is a high possibility that I would have been childless. I have made the sacrifices that my faith demanded of me.
Everyone is free to choose whether or not they will take that path, of course. I just want to provide here the counter-balance to your image of the Bible resting on a scale against your own personal experience. The breaking point of your perspective with Christianity is that you affirm sin. You do not merely say that the sin had some good parts to it, you say that it is not sin at all. I do think that means you cannot be a Christian, or at the very least, it presents a nigh-insurmountable obstacle to being one. I agree that this reality is very unfortunate. I would prefer that more people were Christians rather than less, obviously. But reality is what it is, regardless of how we feel about it.
The fact that you are now a decade into a homosexual commitment does make you very heavily "locked in," so to speak. To tear yourself away from that now would absolutely feel like destroying your whole life. I would ask if there is any possibility that your life ever could have gone any differently--you probably think not. But for me, I can definitely imagine how my life might have gone, and where I might have ended up, if I chose atheism over Christ.
Hi there! Thanks so much for reading and sharing your thoughts. This article was something of a test for my readers, and especially for the Christians: will their hearts be moved by a human story of love and struggle with faith, despite their theological differences? If the answer is no — if they remain unmoved — then they have failed the test.
Your last paragraph there made me think of this passage. I think it speaks to the call of the Gospel and how we must be willing to *die* to ourselves and our passions and desires if we are to follow Him.
Luke 14:25-27
Now great crowds accompanied him, and he turned and said to them, “If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple. Whoever does not bear his own cross and come after me cannot be my disciple.
I would listen to your heart. Ancient words can contain great wisdom, we can learn from the past instead of making the same mistakes but they aren't alive, here and now.
It seems likely that you may already be familiar most/all of the points I make here, but: here's a video of a talk I gave at the parish I served until earlier this year in honor of Pride Month: "What does the Bible Say about LGBTQ People?" I address the 6 common passages that are used by anti-LGBTQ-equality Christians but suggest that none of them warrants such a position. Of course, that doesn't address your broader point above about Scripture's silence on homosexual romance, but I'd still be curious as to what you think.
Stephen. Amazing, though-provoking rawness. I’m glad you’re still writing since Gaychristian.com when you and I first met. I’m also glad you’re disciplining yourself to write in the midst of chaos from Helene.
Sep 26·edited Sep 26Liked by Stephen Bradford Long
You know, even though it’s actually spoken by the “sodomites”, I always found their words in Gen 19:9 to be quite a fitting for this conversation and people using the Bible to justify homophobia, in a modern context:
“This man came here as a foreigner, and *now he wants to play the judge! We’ll treat you worse than them*.” (Gen. 19:9)
Thanks for the great essay! I always love seeing constructive/synthesizing interpretations of how to deal with faith/tradition and societal/cultural change!
This was tough to read, Stephen. Not because my faith is wounded or my ego hurt. Far form it. It just made me realize I have no answer to your questions and absolutely no serious rebuttal. Do I completely agree? No. But I fully comprehend the frustration and "complaint" that someone might feel when coming across Biblical morality. I have two reflections to share, which might as well be of no use at all, but here goes.
Firstly, I have found out that the Bible is only as important as your belief in God. If you believe in God then His word comes first and the believer mediates on it daily. Desires, passions, ambitions, and all forms of earthly love, come second. This is not because of an active suppression; it simply follows a strong faith that all desire disappears.
Secondly, God calls all of us to abandon earthly pleasures. No exception. Even heterosexuals are called to put God first, hence the immorality of polygamy and Jesus' words about marriage and adultery (see Matthew 5).
Either way, you made me want to dig further and solidify my faith even more. A Christian should have a good answer to your questions, as I'm sure those better than me do. So, thanks for the head-scratcher! Blessings.
John, thanks so much for reading and sharing your thoughts. I deeply appreciate your response. I don’t expect people to agree with me — I am content to rest in the deep pluralism that is demanded of me. Instead, I hope to provoke serious consideration and pause, and I’m grateful that you have taken on that challenge.
I think it's very important to recognize that prohibitions on homosexuality come from a time when life was a lot more precarious and breeding a lot was a matter of survival lest our tribe we wiped out by the other tribe.
When viewed through this lens, Judaic and Christian sexual morality is essentially a way to encourage fidelity to family to keep Fathers involved and to grow the tribe.
In our current society where we are not in any way under threat of extinction in our individual tribes, there is no reason to put this high of a premium on breeding and family formation.
Though something has definitely been lost, that's not on you.
I think this is absolutely right, and it’s another way of saying what I was getting at the article: the Bible just does not speak to committed homosexual relationships. And that’s ok! It’s just a book — a beautiful, complex, magnificent book, but a book nonetheless.
You state the Bible is just a book. It is, but it describes invisible realities and relationships that are as real as you and I. Those invisible realities are simply not available to some.
This is a good point, but civilization may be under more threat than you suggest. Sure we have billions of people, but there are reasons to believe that population decline among the most civilized nations could be disastrous.
of course gay couples can and do raise children, but the impact of widespread homosexuality on reproduction norms is difficult to measure. It could be detrimental to the tribe even if it’s a good thing for individuals.
Conversely, I think an argument can be made that a minority of homosexuals in a tribe might benefit it, because they are tasked with caring for the welfare of the community and its members rather than their own children. This is an important traditional role.
Beautiful post as always. I see this all of the time with those who have deconstructed completely away from Christianity--I don't know which sect you were most influenced by, but I'm assuming it was some kind of Fundamentalist Evangelicalism (blink once for yes, twice for no).
People who leave Christianity overwhelmingly leave on a "baby with the bathwater" scale, which funny enough is how they often come to Christianity and act towards their former beliefs. They are convinced that the version of Christianity they are leaving is 100% a faithful, loving and hopeful vision of what Christianity is, and so figure that if they are not a Christian like these people are Christians then the Bible must be wrong, Christ must not be God--the whole works.
Having spent a considerable amount of time (over a decade) outside of organised Christianity (and honestly thriving out here) I can say that the air is clearer out here than stuffed into little prerequisite boxes of theological snobbery. In that time I've become a theological ally as well as an interpersonal ally. I have written about my philosophical and theological leaving of Christian Sexual Ethics which includes the ban against the LGBTQ+ community. I join many heterosexual Christians doing the theological work, being introduced to it first by Kathy Boldock and her book "Walking the Bridgeless Canyon". While there is much work to be done, I do not support the line that we cannot be allies unless our interpretations of the Bible match up.
The Bible is a rich testimony of the love of God which must be taken along with the testimony of God in Creation and in one another where the Spirit of God dwells and teaches us. The Bible is never wrong, but as Dr Boldock shows us time and again, there have been political and theological alterations to English translations to support this or that theological viewpoint which is why it must be checked against the Spirit of God in us and Creation.
Oh, I love Kathy! I knew her back in the day, but we lost touch.
I have a lot of respect for her work, and the work that you are doing. It is needed, necessary work I support, because (as I said in the piece) I believe it is objectively better for the world for Christians to have an affirming view of homosexuality.
Let me explain what I meant when I said the conservatives have the stronger position. I do not mean to imply that *no* meaningful and compelling Biblical argument can be made for affirming homosexuality. Obviously they can be made — and I was an affirming Christian from 2013 to 2017.
It’s rather that I think the conservatives have the more obvious and easily articulated argument from scripture, and I think this is made obvious by the historic record of Christianity, which has read the Bible in that way for 2000 years.
But this doesn’t bother me much, because I also think the Bible has a more obvious pro-slavery stance as well. Obviously, I disagree with both, and I’m grateful that there are Christians reinterpreting Scripture to make a better world.
Just a comment on your assertion that the Bible is in any way pro-slavery. While some might read the OT and claim it is, I point out an obvious fact, if you think about it. (not going to quibble about the various translations and meaning of the word "slave.") The fact is, even if slavery itself was OK, the way a person BECOMES a slave isn't. At some point, leaving out warfare, a person was kidnapped at gunpoint, or using some sort of weapon. That's always wrong. If you have slaves someone might argue it's not wrong in itself, but at some point a sin was committed against that person. At bottom someone who even buys a slave has, in a sense, "recieved stolen property" even if he didn't actually do it himself.
Stephen, as a woman of God and follower of Christ and former bisexual, I address you with the love of Christ. I ask you to pour out your sorrows directly to God. That is part of the healing that God provides, just as King David poured out his heart in Psalms, many times. God does not want "slaves", He wants Sons and Daughters, purified by Him and shaped gradually into the likeness of Christ. Is it easy? No way. Is it fun? No. It is simply a necessary element of allowing God into the wounded places of us all. I have PLENTY of those wounds, I assure you, just read any of my own writings!
I support your humanity and your yearnings for love, those are legitimate. Just as I tried to bury my sorrows over men, with women in my youth, I do "get" at least some of the journies of many homosexual men and lesbians. They were harmed and mistreated in childhood and young adulthood. Virtually all my beloved gay men friends of my youth, were mistreated by family and also seduced by older men. I may not know all the wounds, but I do "get it" and only say what Christ said, "Come unto me, all ye who labor and are heavy laden and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn of me, for I am meek and lowly in heart and I will give you rest unto your souls." This is Matthew 11:28-29. Let God do the healing, step by step. We are not supposed to carry our wounds, they are much too heavy.
As you have in the past, given me permission, I will continue to keep you on my prayer list, for God's presence over your life. Bless you, Stephen, Wendy
Personally, I am still a person of faith in God. I believe God is the Spirit of Love. I also believe the Bible verses used against the LGBTQ family are highly misinterpreted. There are other meanings based on words and customs of the times. Below is a list of a few books that mention these other views, views that make sense and show there is nothing sinful about true love, whether it is between a man and woman, man and man or woman and woman. True love, respect and caring between two people is truly a godly thing.
Books:
UnClobber: Rethinking Our Misuse of the Bible on Homosexuality by Colby Martin
God and the Gay Christian by Matthew Vines
Torn: Rescuing the Gospel from the Gays-vs.-Christians Debate by Justin Lee
Clobber the Passages: Seven Deadly Verses by Mel White
I think good arguments can be made for the affirming position. I also think they *should* be made, and I support those who make them.
I also just think that they are harder to make, harder to articulate, and harder to understand that the conservative arguments, and are, in that sense, weaker.
I have known you since 2016, Stephen. You have been with me through the after effects of my disastrous outing and loss of ordination to my own crazy fumbles and foibles in the Queer community.
My own platonic love for you is quite deep.
Reading through your glorious praise of Jonathan and how he has helped you through thick and thin makes me so happy, as should anyone be when they see the pure love between you two.
So I read this beautiful article knowing a portion of what you have gone through (certainly not the whole). We are creatures of not only our genetics, but also of our environment. We have been molded into who we are, for better or for worse. And when we have broken the form for that mold, something shatters in ourselves as well. We are no longer the same, as is the world we live in.
So I see and acknowledge your just critique of the Bible. The mythological world it presents does not reflect the world we are in now. That mold has broken again and we must pick up the pieces once more.
I am still a Christian, much to the objections and bewilderment of so many of my acquaintances. If my faith were solely based on the Bible, I would agree with you wholeheartedly and say that I am no longer a Christian because of all those reasons you so eloquently wrote in this article.
However, my faith is not just based on the Bible. It is also based on my family (as much as we disagree with each other). It is based on my new Church I joined in 2016 and became a member in 2017. My faith is also based on science, the writings of so many wonderful authors, living and dead. My faith is grounded in my children, who continue to inspire me and give me hope. My faith is tempered by my boyfriend, who reminds me to keep certain things in perspective and to know when to leave things behind.
My faith is also ironically grounded in doubt. That has been my biggest struggle, but also my most valuable tool.
All this to say, yes, the Bible gets so much wrong, but that is not all that Christianity is.
Thanks so much for your friendship and love throughout these crazy years.
Thank you so much, Timothy, and thank you so much for being on this journey with me. If there’s a Christianity I wish more people embodied, it would be yours.
One's own personal experience and perception of sin does not ultimately matter in the Christian tradition. Nor does the Bible's "lack of imagination" regarding sin give any sort of legitimate excuse for its indulgence. I am sure that if I looked, and if such people were motivated to spin the tale, I could find people who say:
--That they have been heavy drinkers, have never seriously considered quitting alcohol, and that it has only ever enriched their lives and been of great benefit to them. I have indeed seen a few such people and seen them make claims like the claim that their life would be miserable or that it would not even be worth living if they gave up their alcoholism.
--That they have indulged in fornication and casual sex and that the experiences were nothing but positive and pleasant for all parties involved.
--That they have participated in the production of pornography and that they found the experience nothing but pleasurable and empowering.
--That they have had abortions and that those abortions have literally saved their lives.
And so forth and so on. Does the Bible describe their perspectives in vivid and highly sympathetic detail? No. Should it? If you think so, then it follows that you must reject Christianity, I suppose. Every belief system has tenets that are non-negotiable. Christianity is very clear about this one. The Bible was canonized hundreds of years after the death of Christ--what did all of His followers believe in the intervening centuries? Did they approve of homosexuality, or did they abhor it? What of the millennia since then? Christians have condemned homosexuality as unambiguously sinful, in all places and all times, until extremely recently.
To bring your personal experience of sin to bear and expect it to sway the minds of Christians is like going to the Amish and telling them that you have lived with all the wonders and comforts of modern technology and that nothing bad has happened to you, that they truly have nothing to fear from these things. Even if you were successful in your appeal, and the Amish abandoned their old ways because of your appeal to personal experience, would they even really be Amish anymore after that? No.
>The Bible is on Osiris' scale. On one side, the words and convictions of an ancient religion I no longer believe. On the other, the vast story of life and virtue that is my partnership of a decade. The Bible is found wanting, and until I see any reason to believe the Bible actually speaks meaningfully to the lived, embodied realities of my partnership, not only would it be stupid to exchange one for the other, it would be immoral.<
As an ancient tradition that spans the globe with billions of followers, Christianity carries the weight of an enormous mass of humanity behind it. Personally, I find it impossible to imagine my single life as ever weighing up to the collective knowledge and wisdom that the faith represents. Therefore I choose to submit myself to this tradition. I'm not a homosexual, of course. But I have given up alcohol, casual sex and pornography as a result of my faith. For most of my life I intended to be childless and, while I do not think the reversal of that attitude was entirely due to my commitment to Christianity, I do believe that the faith played a large part. Had I chosen the other path and dedicated myself to atheism, I think there is a high possibility that I would have been childless. I have made the sacrifices that my faith demanded of me.
Everyone is free to choose whether or not they will take that path, of course. I just want to provide here the counter-balance to your image of the Bible resting on a scale against your own personal experience. The breaking point of your perspective with Christianity is that you affirm sin. You do not merely say that the sin had some good parts to it, you say that it is not sin at all. I do think that means you cannot be a Christian, or at the very least, it presents a nigh-insurmountable obstacle to being one. I agree that this reality is very unfortunate. I would prefer that more people were Christians rather than less, obviously. But reality is what it is, regardless of how we feel about it.
The fact that you are now a decade into a homosexual commitment does make you very heavily "locked in," so to speak. To tear yourself away from that now would absolutely feel like destroying your whole life. I would ask if there is any possibility that your life ever could have gone any differently--you probably think not. But for me, I can definitely imagine how my life might have gone, and where I might have ended up, if I chose atheism over Christ.
Hi there! Thanks so much for reading and sharing your thoughts. This article was something of a test for my readers, and especially for the Christians: will their hearts be moved by a human story of love and struggle with faith, despite their theological differences? If the answer is no — if they remain unmoved — then they have failed the test.
Moving! I have more to say, but it’s too much to write 💙
Your last paragraph there made me think of this passage. I think it speaks to the call of the Gospel and how we must be willing to *die* to ourselves and our passions and desires if we are to follow Him.
Luke 14:25-27
Now great crowds accompanied him, and he turned and said to them, “If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple. Whoever does not bear his own cross and come after me cannot be my disciple.
Pretty grotesque doctrine
Idk I think poopoo butt rape syphilis anal sodomy is pretty grotesque as well
I would listen to your heart. Ancient words can contain great wisdom, we can learn from the past instead of making the same mistakes but they aren't alive, here and now.
Thank you ❤️
I enjoy reading the Bible, especially the King James Version, whose sagas and prose form so much of our history and literature.
Me too! I love the Bible.
It seems likely that you may already be familiar most/all of the points I make here, but: here's a video of a talk I gave at the parish I served until earlier this year in honor of Pride Month: "What does the Bible Say about LGBTQ People?" I address the 6 common passages that are used by anti-LGBTQ-equality Christians but suggest that none of them warrants such a position. Of course, that doesn't address your broader point above about Scripture's silence on homosexual romance, but I'd still be curious as to what you think.
If you're interested, you can watch it here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4HnaotDpok
Thanks so much! I’ll check it out. Yeah, my position is that it’s just more sensible to say the Bible is wrong and/or silent.
Stephen. Amazing, though-provoking rawness. I’m glad you’re still writing since Gaychristian.com when you and I first met. I’m also glad you’re disciplining yourself to write in the midst of chaos from Helene.
Omg STEPHEN MCALISTER it’s you! So good to hear from you.
Beautifully written. Thank you for writing this, Stephen!
Thank you, friend ❤️
You know, even though it’s actually spoken by the “sodomites”, I always found their words in Gen 19:9 to be quite a fitting for this conversation and people using the Bible to justify homophobia, in a modern context:
“This man came here as a foreigner, and *now he wants to play the judge! We’ll treat you worse than them*.” (Gen. 19:9)
Thank you, this comment is 🔥
Thanks for the great essay! I always love seeing constructive/synthesizing interpretations of how to deal with faith/tradition and societal/cultural change!
your subtitle … 🔥
Thanks for reading, friend
Wow Stephen, this is stirring. So much to chew on. Really well expressed.
Thank you so much, Jeff. I respect your work and I take your praise to heart.
This was tough to read, Stephen. Not because my faith is wounded or my ego hurt. Far form it. It just made me realize I have no answer to your questions and absolutely no serious rebuttal. Do I completely agree? No. But I fully comprehend the frustration and "complaint" that someone might feel when coming across Biblical morality. I have two reflections to share, which might as well be of no use at all, but here goes.
Firstly, I have found out that the Bible is only as important as your belief in God. If you believe in God then His word comes first and the believer mediates on it daily. Desires, passions, ambitions, and all forms of earthly love, come second. This is not because of an active suppression; it simply follows a strong faith that all desire disappears.
Secondly, God calls all of us to abandon earthly pleasures. No exception. Even heterosexuals are called to put God first, hence the immorality of polygamy and Jesus' words about marriage and adultery (see Matthew 5).
Either way, you made me want to dig further and solidify my faith even more. A Christian should have a good answer to your questions, as I'm sure those better than me do. So, thanks for the head-scratcher! Blessings.
John, thanks so much for reading and sharing your thoughts. I deeply appreciate your response. I don’t expect people to agree with me — I am content to rest in the deep pluralism that is demanded of me. Instead, I hope to provoke serious consideration and pause, and I’m grateful that you have taken on that challenge.
I think it's very important to recognize that prohibitions on homosexuality come from a time when life was a lot more precarious and breeding a lot was a matter of survival lest our tribe we wiped out by the other tribe.
When viewed through this lens, Judaic and Christian sexual morality is essentially a way to encourage fidelity to family to keep Fathers involved and to grow the tribe.
In our current society where we are not in any way under threat of extinction in our individual tribes, there is no reason to put this high of a premium on breeding and family formation.
Though something has definitely been lost, that's not on you.
I think this is absolutely right, and it’s another way of saying what I was getting at the article: the Bible just does not speak to committed homosexual relationships. And that’s ok! It’s just a book — a beautiful, complex, magnificent book, but a book nonetheless.
You state the Bible is just a book. It is, but it describes invisible realities and relationships that are as real as you and I. Those invisible realities are simply not available to some.
This is a good point, but civilization may be under more threat than you suggest. Sure we have billions of people, but there are reasons to believe that population decline among the most civilized nations could be disastrous.
of course gay couples can and do raise children, but the impact of widespread homosexuality on reproduction norms is difficult to measure. It could be detrimental to the tribe even if it’s a good thing for individuals.
Conversely, I think an argument can be made that a minority of homosexuals in a tribe might benefit it, because they are tasked with caring for the welfare of the community and its members rather than their own children. This is an important traditional role.
Yes, I agree. I think homosexuality evolved for a reason.
Since homosexuals even now that it's considered normal are still a minority, I'm not that concerned about it.
What concerns me more is the idea that childless people owe nothing to parents with children.
As those children will be the service providers of the childless people in the future, there is still a stake.
I think the cold war between straight men and women is more concerning in this regard.
What a beautiful testimony to the love that the two of you share. Congratulations on 10 years together! May you have many, many more.
Thank you so much, Bo ❤️❤️
Beautiful post as always. I see this all of the time with those who have deconstructed completely away from Christianity--I don't know which sect you were most influenced by, but I'm assuming it was some kind of Fundamentalist Evangelicalism (blink once for yes, twice for no).
People who leave Christianity overwhelmingly leave on a "baby with the bathwater" scale, which funny enough is how they often come to Christianity and act towards their former beliefs. They are convinced that the version of Christianity they are leaving is 100% a faithful, loving and hopeful vision of what Christianity is, and so figure that if they are not a Christian like these people are Christians then the Bible must be wrong, Christ must not be God--the whole works.
Having spent a considerable amount of time (over a decade) outside of organised Christianity (and honestly thriving out here) I can say that the air is clearer out here than stuffed into little prerequisite boxes of theological snobbery. In that time I've become a theological ally as well as an interpersonal ally. I have written about my philosophical and theological leaving of Christian Sexual Ethics which includes the ban against the LGBTQ+ community. I join many heterosexual Christians doing the theological work, being introduced to it first by Kathy Boldock and her book "Walking the Bridgeless Canyon". While there is much work to be done, I do not support the line that we cannot be allies unless our interpretations of the Bible match up.
The Bible is a rich testimony of the love of God which must be taken along with the testimony of God in Creation and in one another where the Spirit of God dwells and teaches us. The Bible is never wrong, but as Dr Boldock shows us time and again, there have been political and theological alterations to English translations to support this or that theological viewpoint which is why it must be checked against the Spirit of God in us and Creation.
Oh, I love Kathy! I knew her back in the day, but we lost touch.
I have a lot of respect for her work, and the work that you are doing. It is needed, necessary work I support, because (as I said in the piece) I believe it is objectively better for the world for Christians to have an affirming view of homosexuality.
Let me explain what I meant when I said the conservatives have the stronger position. I do not mean to imply that *no* meaningful and compelling Biblical argument can be made for affirming homosexuality. Obviously they can be made — and I was an affirming Christian from 2013 to 2017.
It’s rather that I think the conservatives have the more obvious and easily articulated argument from scripture, and I think this is made obvious by the historic record of Christianity, which has read the Bible in that way for 2000 years.
But this doesn’t bother me much, because I also think the Bible has a more obvious pro-slavery stance as well. Obviously, I disagree with both, and I’m grateful that there are Christians reinterpreting Scripture to make a better world.
Just a comment on your assertion that the Bible is in any way pro-slavery. While some might read the OT and claim it is, I point out an obvious fact, if you think about it. (not going to quibble about the various translations and meaning of the word "slave.") The fact is, even if slavery itself was OK, the way a person BECOMES a slave isn't. At some point, leaving out warfare, a person was kidnapped at gunpoint, or using some sort of weapon. That's always wrong. If you have slaves someone might argue it's not wrong in itself, but at some point a sin was committed against that person. At bottom someone who even buys a slave has, in a sense, "recieved stolen property" even if he didn't actually do it himself.
Stephen, as a woman of God and follower of Christ and former bisexual, I address you with the love of Christ. I ask you to pour out your sorrows directly to God. That is part of the healing that God provides, just as King David poured out his heart in Psalms, many times. God does not want "slaves", He wants Sons and Daughters, purified by Him and shaped gradually into the likeness of Christ. Is it easy? No way. Is it fun? No. It is simply a necessary element of allowing God into the wounded places of us all. I have PLENTY of those wounds, I assure you, just read any of my own writings!
I support your humanity and your yearnings for love, those are legitimate. Just as I tried to bury my sorrows over men, with women in my youth, I do "get" at least some of the journies of many homosexual men and lesbians. They were harmed and mistreated in childhood and young adulthood. Virtually all my beloved gay men friends of my youth, were mistreated by family and also seduced by older men. I may not know all the wounds, but I do "get it" and only say what Christ said, "Come unto me, all ye who labor and are heavy laden and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn of me, for I am meek and lowly in heart and I will give you rest unto your souls." This is Matthew 11:28-29. Let God do the healing, step by step. We are not supposed to carry our wounds, they are much too heavy.
As you have in the past, given me permission, I will continue to keep you on my prayer list, for God's presence over your life. Bless you, Stephen, Wendy
Personally, I am still a person of faith in God. I believe God is the Spirit of Love. I also believe the Bible verses used against the LGBTQ family are highly misinterpreted. There are other meanings based on words and customs of the times. Below is a list of a few books that mention these other views, views that make sense and show there is nothing sinful about true love, whether it is between a man and woman, man and man or woman and woman. True love, respect and caring between two people is truly a godly thing.
Books:
UnClobber: Rethinking Our Misuse of the Bible on Homosexuality by Colby Martin
God and the Gay Christian by Matthew Vines
Torn: Rescuing the Gospel from the Gays-vs.-Christians Debate by Justin Lee
Clobber the Passages: Seven Deadly Verses by Mel White
I think good arguments can be made for the affirming position. I also think they *should* be made, and I support those who make them.
I also just think that they are harder to make, harder to articulate, and harder to understand that the conservative arguments, and are, in that sense, weaker.
Sadly that is probably right, but I am glad for the people who continue to show their support and affirmation of the LGBTQ family.