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Thank you very much Stephen for having me on your show. It was both an honor and a blast.

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It was such a pleasure! You are welcome back any time.

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I like your emphasis on spiritual practice. I don't think Christianity can evolve without it. Almost 15 years ago, I did an online course with Ken Wilber and Integral Life called "Coming Home, An Integral Christian practicum." It's still out there although I'd change a number of parts.

In classic Integral fashion, I included too much and didn't challenge the guru model (which I've never been...I'm a teacher at heart). I didn't challenge progressive Christianity (and us Integral geeks) as too stuck in the mental center.

I didn't point to the power of ritual which gets us beyond the conscious mind. I didn't challenge Integral and progressive Christianity's masculine bias or ask why so many women ended up fleeing the movement.

With all that said, in fairness to my then middle adulthood self, I learned all these shadows by living them. It gives me compassion for writers who write an entire book and then change their views. We've got some courage for putting *anything* out here, don't we?

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