You're right about being told to be honest about emotions, but then rejected when the expressed emotions are considered wrong.
As a straight guy, I'm initially interested in having casual sex with every beautiful girl I see -- so I've trained myself to turn it into a fantasy about my wife (30 years of faithfulness!). But I want more than is reasonably possible, like 200%. In my sixties, my horny mind wants more than my still ok bod can perform. Which I know.
So I sometimes express regret at some of the 100% I don't get, yet my wife is upset about those regrets as if it means the current reality is not enough. This after a few decades of fine love-making and living together well ... but at times I want more. More than is reasonable. She doesn't want to hear it, even when I agree it's unrealistic.
Less problems, better, not to talk about THOSE feelings.
My wife is my best friend, but it’s best to censor some. I’m now doing zoom calls with old school friends especially to verbalize some of the not-so Sweet Dreams I have about use & abuse, using & abusing. Mostly not sexual, tho sometimes a bit.
It’s important to be able to vent, to rant about dumb & bad ideas, without killing good feelings… that’s what friends are for!
Especially male friends w/o sexual interest. I avoid too much intimacy with any woman other than my wife (avoiding temptation).
But I suspect almost no woman who I’d like even as just a friend would be able to support my own dark dreams. Tho mine seem far less dark than these you’ve expressed.
Substack writing might be better than getting drunk at a bar and bawling to other drunks about these issues, tho that might also be preferable to being alone & quiet.
What a gorgeous, honest, deep, raw, accurate essay about men in our culture and how we’re confusingly told to be more vulnerable and then slammed when we actually are. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t. Lot of insight in this essay. Everyone, but especially women, should read this and take heed. I have dealt with many women in the past who wanted to me to be vulnerable only to use it against me when they felt like it.
As someone who just shared a piece about male vulnerabilty, this was incredibly relatable. To me it seems part of the issue is men lacking experience with expressing their feelings and being gauche, but it's more so your point to how our vulnerability is superficially valued in a society that can't handle its consequences.
This was beautifully done. Thank you for sharing 🙏
Thank you so much for sharing. Agreed. This is why I believe we need to proactively create male spaces that encourage the kind of vulnerability required for healthy men.
The vulnerability is appreciated. While societal expectations for women have evolved much in the past century, the expectations for men have been much slower to change, if at all.
Socially speaking, the worth of a man is tied to what he produces/contributes. His worth is not a given. And so he does not often have the luxury of being emotional or vulnerable. A soft man, or man who displays emotions like sadness, distress or anxiety is largely still largely reviled.
I believe Chris Rock said, "Only women, children and dogs are loved unconditionally." Such is our lot.
‘They want something suitable for a rom-com. They want male emotions but tamed, like poodles. They want the show-ready version, groomed and bred into some decorative fluff. They don’t want the wall-punching rage, the terror behind the drug use, the absolute loneliness, the fear that yawns like an abyss.’
Great piece, and this passage reaches the crux of it. It's also been my experience that the demand for emotional vulnerability often comes with the unspoken expectation that it also at least be palatable as well - which, of course, it rarely ever is. Moreover, even a single moment’s weakness can be costly, and I suspect most men know this on an instinctive level.
100%. So true. People (women) often ask for the deepest, the darkest, and then you offer it and you get judged and rejected. I've had the opposite experiences, too, but it has happened too often.
I am not a man, but I am a butch lesbian who passed as a man in society for a time. I relate deeply to what you write here, the emotional expectations even when people relate to you as a “masculine person” and not a man, are crushing. Throughout my life people have expected me to be strong, and punished me for struggling or needing support.
I've always been willing to work through whatever problems male friends or partners of mine have had. I've had relationships with some deeply troubled men. The only thing that has ever made me give up on a man I loved is when his rage and hatred for himself or the world turned into abuse to me. You can cry, you can yell. You can tell me your darkest thoughts and secrets. You can hit the wall. Just don't hit ME.
Stephen, I don't know why your friends hit you in response to you sharing your secrets and struggles, but you didn't deserve that reaction. Or any of those reactions for that matter. I'm deeply sorry.
I still believe there are more people out there who are truly open to men's vulnerability than you may realize. Sadly, I've seen men who won't accept support even when it is offered, and I'm not sure how we fix that together as a society.
There was a man I loved fiercely and wanted to spend my life with and tried so hard to heal, but he angrily rejected every suggestion of resources and professional help I gave, and my compassion and love alone just weren't enough to help him get well. Eventually, as I mentioned previously, he became abusive toward me, and so I felt forced to walk away for my own well-being. It was like he wanted me to hate myself too instead of helping both of us be happier. I guess that behavior isn't exclusive to men. I still see the failure of that love to be one of the greatest tragedies of my life.
There’s a great deal of strength and courage in this post and you should be proud of yourself.
I have scars too. I’ve carried suicidal ideation all through my adult life and it will probably never go away, but I’ve learned to accept it as an impulse I will no longer indulge.
I met a woman who had an incredible heart and could be gentle and kind in the face of my rage. It’s an adjustment for anyone raised in a society where men are expected (required?) to bottle their emotions but she made it.
You can find the people who will let be you be vulnerable and love you for it but it’s a leap of faith. Take care of yourself and thank you for sharing.
Hi Stephen, thank you so much for sharing this part of you. I can feel your strength and deep self-awareness in these words — and the admirable vulnerability that encapsulates both these traits.
Publishing that must have felt incredibly scary and vulnerable, there is a lot of emotions in those words. It was really thought-provoking, got me thinking about my own struggle of "becoming a man" and what that meant. It isn't easy to find that path between who you are versus what society expects of us no matter who you are. I can't say my experience was similar, I think I was very fortunate with the family I was born to, I had a lot of different positive male role models. And more than that I have enjoyed a very long term relationship that has allowed me the space to be vulnerable in a way that I'm coming to realize is quite rare.
It was definitely a risk. I wasn’t entirely sober minded when I published this. If I was thinking more clearly I probably wouldn’t have. But it’s out there now, and people seem to appreciate it.
"I wonder if people shouldn’t want male vulnerability at all."
This shook me. The wonder & the shouldn't. It tells the truth, and it tells a truth that lies. That you uttered it tells me something about you. Of your nature. Whose interests are on your mind in saying it. And yet, even if people didn't want male vulnerability, they would be wrong to believe that they shouldn't want it. The other side of chosen vulnerability has priceless gifts, and not just for the one choosing vulnerability. Sometimes the gifts we most need to receive come from those whose sincerity and gifts are hardest to receive. It took me 30 years to realize how severely the gaze with which I witness my father was shaped by my mother's gaze of him. I did not see his tenderness or (clumsy) tries to connect. I did not see his vulnerabilities and I did not see truth in his eyes when it was there searching for mine. I am better for receiving what he has to give, and wish I had been ready to receive sooner.
One of my favorites. "If" by Rudyard Kipling. My father quoted it to me when I was about thirteen, and it has stayed with me since. In all the talk about masculinity, i believe this poem details the essence.
Men are absolutely 100% disposable in this culture. We have no value, except for what we can produce. So of course, any emotional fallout from that arrangement will not be welcome. Now shut the fuck up and get back to work, honey.
You're right about being told to be honest about emotions, but then rejected when the expressed emotions are considered wrong.
As a straight guy, I'm initially interested in having casual sex with every beautiful girl I see -- so I've trained myself to turn it into a fantasy about my wife (30 years of faithfulness!). But I want more than is reasonably possible, like 200%. In my sixties, my horny mind wants more than my still ok bod can perform. Which I know.
So I sometimes express regret at some of the 100% I don't get, yet my wife is upset about those regrets as if it means the current reality is not enough. This after a few decades of fine love-making and living together well ... but at times I want more. More than is reasonable. She doesn't want to hear it, even when I agree it's unrealistic.
Less problems, better, not to talk about THOSE feelings.
Yes. Thank you so much for sharing. There are times when I think that other men are probably the more appropriate confidants
My wife is my best friend, but it’s best to censor some. I’m now doing zoom calls with old school friends especially to verbalize some of the not-so Sweet Dreams I have about use & abuse, using & abusing. Mostly not sexual, tho sometimes a bit.
It’s important to be able to vent, to rant about dumb & bad ideas, without killing good feelings… that’s what friends are for!
Especially male friends w/o sexual interest. I avoid too much intimacy with any woman other than my wife (avoiding temptation).
But I suspect almost no woman who I’d like even as just a friend would be able to support my own dark dreams. Tho mine seem far less dark than these you’ve expressed.
Substack writing might be better than getting drunk at a bar and bawling to other drunks about these issues, tho that might also be preferable to being alone & quiet.
“They’re sharing a drink they call loneliness,
Well it’s better than drinking alone.”
Billy Joel quite popular in my karaoke habit.
Well said. Male friendship is probably the answer here
What a gorgeous, honest, deep, raw, accurate essay about men in our culture and how we’re confusingly told to be more vulnerable and then slammed when we actually are. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t. Lot of insight in this essay. Everyone, but especially women, should read this and take heed. I have dealt with many women in the past who wanted to me to be vulnerable only to use it against me when they felt like it.
Thank you for sharing <3
As someone who just shared a piece about male vulnerabilty, this was incredibly relatable. To me it seems part of the issue is men lacking experience with expressing their feelings and being gauche, but it's more so your point to how our vulnerability is superficially valued in a society that can't handle its consequences.
This was beautifully done. Thank you for sharing 🙏
Thank you so much for sharing. Agreed. This is why I believe we need to proactively create male spaces that encourage the kind of vulnerability required for healthy men.
Great essay. Agree with your assessment.
The vulnerability is appreciated. While societal expectations for women have evolved much in the past century, the expectations for men have been much slower to change, if at all.
Socially speaking, the worth of a man is tied to what he produces/contributes. His worth is not a given. And so he does not often have the luxury of being emotional or vulnerable. A soft man, or man who displays emotions like sadness, distress or anxiety is largely still largely reviled.
I believe Chris Rock said, "Only women, children and dogs are loved unconditionally." Such is our lot.
‘They want something suitable for a rom-com. They want male emotions but tamed, like poodles. They want the show-ready version, groomed and bred into some decorative fluff. They don’t want the wall-punching rage, the terror behind the drug use, the absolute loneliness, the fear that yawns like an abyss.’
Great piece, and this passage reaches the crux of it. It's also been my experience that the demand for emotional vulnerability often comes with the unspoken expectation that it also at least be palatable as well - which, of course, it rarely ever is. Moreover, even a single moment’s weakness can be costly, and I suspect most men know this on an instinctive level.
100%. So true. People (women) often ask for the deepest, the darkest, and then you offer it and you get judged and rejected. I've had the opposite experiences, too, but it has happened too often.
I am not a man, but I am a butch lesbian who passed as a man in society for a time. I relate deeply to what you write here, the emotional expectations even when people relate to you as a “masculine person” and not a man, are crushing. Throughout my life people have expected me to be strong, and punished me for struggling or needing support.
So courageous, beautiful, inspiring — thank you!
I've always been willing to work through whatever problems male friends or partners of mine have had. I've had relationships with some deeply troubled men. The only thing that has ever made me give up on a man I loved is when his rage and hatred for himself or the world turned into abuse to me. You can cry, you can yell. You can tell me your darkest thoughts and secrets. You can hit the wall. Just don't hit ME.
Stephen, I don't know why your friends hit you in response to you sharing your secrets and struggles, but you didn't deserve that reaction. Or any of those reactions for that matter. I'm deeply sorry.
I still believe there are more people out there who are truly open to men's vulnerability than you may realize. Sadly, I've seen men who won't accept support even when it is offered, and I'm not sure how we fix that together as a society.
There was a man I loved fiercely and wanted to spend my life with and tried so hard to heal, but he angrily rejected every suggestion of resources and professional help I gave, and my compassion and love alone just weren't enough to help him get well. Eventually, as I mentioned previously, he became abusive toward me, and so I felt forced to walk away for my own well-being. It was like he wanted me to hate myself too instead of helping both of us be happier. I guess that behavior isn't exclusive to men. I still see the failure of that love to be one of the greatest tragedies of my life.
Wow, that connected! I'm awfully glad you shared that.
I'm also deeply impressed that you were able to write while at a low point.
Thanks so much for reading! Writing is sometimes the *only* thing I’m able to do at a low point
There’s a great deal of strength and courage in this post and you should be proud of yourself.
I have scars too. I’ve carried suicidal ideation all through my adult life and it will probably never go away, but I’ve learned to accept it as an impulse I will no longer indulge.
I met a woman who had an incredible heart and could be gentle and kind in the face of my rage. It’s an adjustment for anyone raised in a society where men are expected (required?) to bottle their emotions but she made it.
You can find the people who will let be you be vulnerable and love you for it but it’s a leap of faith. Take care of yourself and thank you for sharing.
Thank you so much for reading and sharing your experience and encouragement
Just stay out of women's bathrooms and women's sports, will you?
That's literally all we're asking for.
The bare minimum.
And men can't even do that.
you really got to shit on somebody for just sharing their emotions? kind of exactly what this writing was in fear of.
Also your just straight up in the wrong comment section??? This isn't even related
Amen.
Hi Stephen, thank you so much for sharing this part of you. I can feel your strength and deep self-awareness in these words — and the admirable vulnerability that encapsulates both these traits.
You’re awesome. Wishing you all the very best.
Thanks Lukas!
Amazing piece. Thanks for writing
Thank you for reading.
Publishing that must have felt incredibly scary and vulnerable, there is a lot of emotions in those words. It was really thought-provoking, got me thinking about my own struggle of "becoming a man" and what that meant. It isn't easy to find that path between who you are versus what society expects of us no matter who you are. I can't say my experience was similar, I think I was very fortunate with the family I was born to, I had a lot of different positive male role models. And more than that I have enjoyed a very long term relationship that has allowed me the space to be vulnerable in a way that I'm coming to realize is quite rare.
It was definitely a risk. I wasn’t entirely sober minded when I published this. If I was thinking more clearly I probably wouldn’t have. But it’s out there now, and people seem to appreciate it.
Thank you for sharing some of your story ❤️
"I wonder if people shouldn’t want male vulnerability at all."
This shook me. The wonder & the shouldn't. It tells the truth, and it tells a truth that lies. That you uttered it tells me something about you. Of your nature. Whose interests are on your mind in saying it. And yet, even if people didn't want male vulnerability, they would be wrong to believe that they shouldn't want it. The other side of chosen vulnerability has priceless gifts, and not just for the one choosing vulnerability. Sometimes the gifts we most need to receive come from those whose sincerity and gifts are hardest to receive. It took me 30 years to realize how severely the gaze with which I witness my father was shaped by my mother's gaze of him. I did not see his tenderness or (clumsy) tries to connect. I did not see his vulnerabilities and I did not see truth in his eyes when it was there searching for mine. I am better for receiving what he has to give, and wish I had been ready to receive sooner.
Thank you so much for sharing ❤️
If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you;
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or, being lied about, don’t deal in lies,
Or, being hated, don’t give way to hating,
And yet don’t look too good, nor talk too wise;
If you can dream—and not make dreams your master;
If you can think—and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with triumph and disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you’ve spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to broken,
And stoop and build ’em up with wornout tools;
If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breathe a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: “Hold on”;
If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with kings—nor lose the common touch;
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you;
If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds’ worth of distance run—
Yours is the Earth and everything that’s in it,
And—which is more—you’ll be a Man, my son!
I love this poem! Thanks for sharing.
One of my favorites. "If" by Rudyard Kipling. My father quoted it to me when I was about thirteen, and it has stayed with me since. In all the talk about masculinity, i believe this poem details the essence.
Men are absolutely 100% disposable in this culture. We have no value, except for what we can produce. So of course, any emotional fallout from that arrangement will not be welcome. Now shut the fuck up and get back to work, honey.