I was not expecting on opening this post just how much I was about to relate---the experiential similarities were refreshing to hear in terms of troubled years etc etc
The old-school, beer on the couch and be quiet woman sorta guy has been something I've been thinking about more lately for some reason, I guess getting sober has set off this part of me that is comparing my strange combo of drunken-madman/more fragile creative with those 'men.' What I had honestly never considered is the link between my tendency for introspection, my obsession with death and these dudes. So thanks for that!
I may sit down to write about all this stuff I've been thinking soon and you've just added fuel to the fire, thank you!
Interesting thoughts. I am not a man, but want to chime in a little bit about some of the thoughts you share about what women *do* or *do not* want, particularly in relation to how people think and talk about topics like intimacy and consent and communication.
I definitely think there is something to consider about not being so prescriptive as to lose the organic unfolding of events during intimate interactions. I also believe strongly that the older ways of participating in intimate interactions are seriously flawed. So I don't think people are always talking about the same thing when they have these conversations, whether publicly or privately.
I do not want my interactions, whether intimate or otherwise, to be so prescriptive that I am thinking more about the rules the whole time than I am about the person or the emotions or connectedness of the interaction. But I also do not want an absence of rules or consent or agreed-upon parameters of some kind. (They do not have to be formal and constant in practice, but I do believe they should be revisited as needed to make sure people are still on the same page, because we often drift from our understandings within our relationships over time. And lack of communication, or at least effective communication, is one of the biggest issues at the core of relationships falling apart.)
In my teens and twenties, the culture was such that people just didn't talk about it at all - not in the moment, not beforehand, not afterward - directly with the other person. People talked plenty to everyone else *besides* the person they were being intimate with (or wanting to be or had been in the past), but not directly with each other. I feel like it was so ingrained that you don't talk about that stuff directly because it kills the moment, that people often didn't talk about it even outside of the moment. And that is a shame. And even more than being a shame, it did lead to a lot of opportunity for misunderstanding, misinterpretation, and even direct harm because there was no understanding of what anyone was supposed to be doing or communicating.
With no education about how to navigate relationships, let alone other types of intimacy, a lot of people did more than fumble when it came to those interactions. I think consent used to just be considered a given if you started to be in any way romantically physical with someone. And once you had consented to a certain type or degree of intimate activity, that anything else in that category was assumed to be okay/fair game from thrn on.
Without any conversation about it, the things that can go wrong in such a scenario are many, and some of those are pretty unfortunate.
There are ways to have conversations about intimacy and consent and what each person wants (for specifically doesn't want), but where those do not have to happen in a step-by-step fashion in the moment every time there is any form of intimacy taking place. Just like with any relationship dynamic, it will work better if people are open and have conversations about what they do and do not like, do and do not want, and develop their relationship around those elements for all involved. Because not talking about it at all can set people in a whole routine that is not really working well for anyone, and it can become solidified in the typical "routine" for no other reason than no one has spoken up to contest it.
I don't think that has anything to do with manliness or maleness at the core, but I do think a big part of it probably comes from (or is at least exacerbated by) the many societal stereotypes and expectations of men and women and various arbitrary gender/social norms over the years.
You had me at "A true writer is interested in only one thing: subjective truth; nuance; human complexity; asking the deep questions; searching for that elusive idea called meaning," Michael.
But also, from one Gen-Xer to a Millennial, well said in this piece.
I don't check as many of the Man boxes as you—like I don't know much about how to fight—but I doubt you'd dock me for it. To this reader, you're not describing the template. You're describing one manifestation. (Pun totally intended.)
Stephen, how do I find Michael on Substack? My first attempt only brought up that one dude, and that's not who I was looking for.
Subscribed! I'm nowhere near the accomplished writer you are, but I did recently write about death in a way that the above reminds me of. If you're curious, I invite you to check it out. https://livehappier.substack.com/p/practicing-the-end?r=28oi66
Masculinity is a social construct. It means nothing.
I was not expecting on opening this post just how much I was about to relate---the experiential similarities were refreshing to hear in terms of troubled years etc etc
The old-school, beer on the couch and be quiet woman sorta guy has been something I've been thinking about more lately for some reason, I guess getting sober has set off this part of me that is comparing my strange combo of drunken-madman/more fragile creative with those 'men.' What I had honestly never considered is the link between my tendency for introspection, my obsession with death and these dudes. So thanks for that!
I may sit down to write about all this stuff I've been thinking soon and you've just added fuel to the fire, thank you!
Thanks for reading, Sean!! Appreciate it.
Interesting thoughts. I am not a man, but want to chime in a little bit about some of the thoughts you share about what women *do* or *do not* want, particularly in relation to how people think and talk about topics like intimacy and consent and communication.
I definitely think there is something to consider about not being so prescriptive as to lose the organic unfolding of events during intimate interactions. I also believe strongly that the older ways of participating in intimate interactions are seriously flawed. So I don't think people are always talking about the same thing when they have these conversations, whether publicly or privately.
I do not want my interactions, whether intimate or otherwise, to be so prescriptive that I am thinking more about the rules the whole time than I am about the person or the emotions or connectedness of the interaction. But I also do not want an absence of rules or consent or agreed-upon parameters of some kind. (They do not have to be formal and constant in practice, but I do believe they should be revisited as needed to make sure people are still on the same page, because we often drift from our understandings within our relationships over time. And lack of communication, or at least effective communication, is one of the biggest issues at the core of relationships falling apart.)
In my teens and twenties, the culture was such that people just didn't talk about it at all - not in the moment, not beforehand, not afterward - directly with the other person. People talked plenty to everyone else *besides* the person they were being intimate with (or wanting to be or had been in the past), but not directly with each other. I feel like it was so ingrained that you don't talk about that stuff directly because it kills the moment, that people often didn't talk about it even outside of the moment. And that is a shame. And even more than being a shame, it did lead to a lot of opportunity for misunderstanding, misinterpretation, and even direct harm because there was no understanding of what anyone was supposed to be doing or communicating.
With no education about how to navigate relationships, let alone other types of intimacy, a lot of people did more than fumble when it came to those interactions. I think consent used to just be considered a given if you started to be in any way romantically physical with someone. And once you had consented to a certain type or degree of intimate activity, that anything else in that category was assumed to be okay/fair game from thrn on.
Without any conversation about it, the things that can go wrong in such a scenario are many, and some of those are pretty unfortunate.
There are ways to have conversations about intimacy and consent and what each person wants (for specifically doesn't want), but where those do not have to happen in a step-by-step fashion in the moment every time there is any form of intimacy taking place. Just like with any relationship dynamic, it will work better if people are open and have conversations about what they do and do not like, do and do not want, and develop their relationship around those elements for all involved. Because not talking about it at all can set people in a whole routine that is not really working well for anyone, and it can become solidified in the typical "routine" for no other reason than no one has spoken up to contest it.
I don't think that has anything to do with manliness or maleness at the core, but I do think a big part of it probably comes from (or is at least exacerbated by) the many societal stereotypes and expectations of men and women and various arbitrary gender/social norms over the years.
Well said! It's all about finding that healthy balance!
You had me at "A true writer is interested in only one thing: subjective truth; nuance; human complexity; asking the deep questions; searching for that elusive idea called meaning," Michael.
But also, from one Gen-Xer to a Millennial, well said in this piece.
I don't check as many of the Man boxes as you—like I don't know much about how to fight—but I doubt you'd dock me for it. To this reader, you're not describing the template. You're describing one manifestation. (Pun totally intended.)
Stephen, how do I find Michael on Substack? My first attempt only brought up that one dude, and that's not who I was looking for.
Thanks for the comment and read, Damon! Appreciate it, man. Here's my stack: https://michaelmohr.substack.com/
Subscribed! I'm nowhere near the accomplished writer you are, but I did recently write about death in a way that the above reminds me of. If you're curious, I invite you to check it out. https://livehappier.substack.com/p/practicing-the-end?r=28oi66
I'll check it out. Just subscribed to your stack as well :)
Please find an Illuminated Understanding of death and everything else too via these references;
http://www.easydeathbook.com/purpose.asp beautiful prose - what death requires of us
http://beezone.com/latest/death_message.html
http://www.adidaupclose.org/death_and_dying/index.html
http://beezone.com/adida/ego-fear/index-47.html the Ego's Fear Of Death
http://beezone.com/adida/quandramamashikhara/thelawofpleasuredomeedit.html The Pleasure Dome Principle
http://beezone.com/whats-new
An interesting understanding of the (binding) meanings associated with the body
http://beezone.com/current/meaning.html